Holy to the Moly ... nothing like a double eviction week to stir up the shit.

I just wrote up an edit to my last post in "General House Analysis and Discussion VI," but the topic got closed before I hit the complete button, so I'll post it here...



I'm not so much a Janey lover. I do like her and I'm rooting for her, but I see her faults. I just feel her pain, right now. She's having a rough season. She's not the season 6 Janelle and she knows she's not making great decisions.

I think Janelle is right to feel threatened by Erika and Danielle. They have backstabbed her from the get-go -- Danielle, literally, from day 1. I disagree that they've behaved decently. I think they've been vile. (Everyone's been vile, but within the context of the game. I just feel they, along with Boogie, James and Will, have been personally vindictive toward her.)

I do agree, with you, that she should also feel more animosity, right now, toward George and Will. Unfortunately, as a girl who grew up close to boys because the girls hated her, she'll be harder on the women than the men.

----------------------------------------

ETA: To be honest, I thought I'd like Erika and I loved Dani, and her game, in BB3. My hatred for them on All-Stars is unexpected. I can't even tolerate their voices anymore.

On the contrary, when I began watching BB7 I was kind of suspicious of Janelle, who I thought was partially responsible for the demise of both Howie & Kaysar, my favourites last year. Surprisingly, I was drawn to her again and found myself rooting for her. The fact that Danielle & Erika both annoy me so much almost enhances my feelings toward Janelle. :P

With Janelle, you get what you see. She makes no apologies. Even if she does some stuff I don't agree with, I respect that more than I can respect two people who do things I don't agree with and, as I see it, pretend to be sweet, genuine and noble.

I concur (or I'll cosign that.) But it's becoming all too clear to me that this whole thing with Dani, Erika, Will & Mike was in stone before they went in the house and each of them had a job to do, as far as befriending certain houseguests (Dani & James, Erika & Kaysar/Howie, Will & Janelle, Mike & Diane/other female HG's) to get themselves to the final 4. George is just an annoyance (to them) that they've strung along for appearance sake to use & discard eventually. I'm done with the show. I've got better things to do than watch these 4 smug assholes go for broke and their stupid antics. Please, let this be the death knell of this show.

Wait.... it's Dani, Erika, Will and Mike now? I have to catch up with the damn recaps.

I don't care what lies George thinks he was told. I know Howie would have had his back more than anyone else in that house would have. George just made the same stupid mistake the rest of that house keeps making - trusting CT.

I'm sure Will is spinning Janie up in a web of lies, but damn I wish the girl would get some fight back in her. I would forgive her all her stupidity up until this point if she would see the lies, find her fire, and take this game to a whole new level. If Dani has been lying to James too, I think James and Janie could get past their differences and go balls to the wall till the end. There are no better competitors in that house than those two. Better manipulators? Yes. Better players? Yes. But if any two people could make an HoH run right now it would be Janie and James.

I just read all 17 pages of last nights MESS!!! I'm heartbroken - I lurf the mighty beef cake. I don't care if he is pervy, he's real!!! As is Janey!! I sure as hell can't say that about the rest of the houseguests. I'm so piturbed, I hate having to bawl my eyes out reading about reality tv. I nauseated myself, sobbing like a pathetic dweeb. Now that I finished reading the crap I read, I'm totally pissed! Janey - channel my anger, gf - Getcher ass up and fight to WIN - or I swear, I'll be forced to ----ahhh----forced to vote for Will? ---Gawd, that scares the shit outta me.


Oh yeah, my question: In one of the recaps - it is alleged that we can vote Howie back in? HOW? When? WHERE? I'm there, just gimme the 411 ----hurry, please! I'm gunna hold my breath, *stomps foot, folds arms!!!


My heart still belongs to Kaysar!!! (weird, I felt anger when he left, but sad when Howie left - probably because there was no closure - no good-byes - no nuttin'.. just hard black and white words on a page. :'(

I just can't believe that any of the remaining hamsters feel like they can win, except maybe Will. I get that someone has to go at every eviction; but, how did George think that nominating Howie would buy him the win or even that much more time? Does anyone think Boogie will not nominate him and Janelle? If Janelle goes next, I can't imagine I will much care who wins, just like last year.

Well, I don't really think it's been stated as such but it seems clear (to me anyway) that Erika, who I would assume is expendable, has been saved time and again. And she's involved with Mike outside the house. Will said on the first telecast that he felt Danielle was unfairly ripped off in her season and wanted to make it up to her. Danielle is perfectly capable of stringing James along because he's so tempermental and had an axe to grid with Howie, Janelle & Kaysar. She's a good manipulator and could very well be using those facts to her advantage. That's why I think they've all been in cahoots with this thing from before it even started. 3 of these people were the producers choices (Mike, Will & Danielle) and Erika could have easily replaced George as a producers choice had he been a Viewer's choice. The way Mike & Will have been throwing around their supposed producers' role in the show makes the whole thing suspicous to me, in that Will & Mike would not participate without Erika & Danielle being involved. I smell a conspiracy.

My question is this: who, if anyone, is going to nominate or even attempt to take out Will or Mike?

James: Not unless he turns on the LOD. Plus, if he does that, he runs the risk of the one sent to sequester ratting him out to Howie and Janelle. He might come final four, to save Danielle, if it came to that.

Janelle: Would NEVER nominate Will. She might nominate Boogie if she ran out of other options, but only as a pawn, and he would stay.

Danielle: Again, she might come final four, or she might put one up as a pawn against Janelle.

Erika: Will, possibly, as a pawn to take out Janelle. Will, James, and Janelle are the only three she doesn't have a formal deal with, as far as I know.

George: It's possible. He feels he owes the three women, and although I think his primary target would be James, he's probably the one who wouldn't care if they went home.

Will and Mike played one thing really well: they got rid of Marcellas, who was the one who wouldn't have hesitated to nominate them (or wouldn't have if his hatred of Janelle hadn't gotten in the way.) Similarly, Howie I think wouldn't have tried too hard to save them, and was probably about the weakest ally they had.

I think Will's plan is to save Janelle and let her carry him to the end and lose to him, or, worst case scenario, she can lose to Boogie instead. Which, really, isn't a bad plan at all.

My head is reeling at this latest turn of events.

All I can think of is Nicole from season 2, who is probably sitting in front of her computer screaming that they are letting ChillTown win this thing AGAIN. No one knows better than her that these two guys are manipulative pricks. And they are making Janie into this season's Nicole.

I can see them whittling one side against the other; using Janie to get out Danielle and James, than using Erica to get out CG and Janelle. Than Will goes into sequester and works the sequester house to give the money all to Boogie , with a backdoor deal to split the money with Boogie later. It's maddening.

On Day One I was screaming at the house to get out those two, didn't any of these hamsters watch season two?

I agree. I don't understand how either of them lasted this long, unless Will's a hypnotist or drugging everyone.

Since the oh-so-fabulous Coup power is now null and void, if the producers have a brain, they'll work out a way to get it to the second-closest guesser. Which I believe was Janey.

What a tweest that would be!

The funny thing is...in speaking with Boogie...Will just accidentally called Janelle "Nicole."



That would be awesome!

Actually -- I think that BB should have worked that into the rules.

Merged double posts -- Mags

I don't know...I love Janelle and want her to stay as long as possible, but fairly. If BB changed things around and let her have the Coup because she was the second closest guesser, I'd feel like the fix was in and it would completely tarnish the game for me.

I'm one of the biggest Janelle fans ever, but her guess wasn't correct, so she shouldn't get the power. It's just another example of a good idea turned to shit by BB.

Posted by Violetta in the recaps thread:



Tuesday's show isn't being pre-empted. It's just airing at 9:00 instead of 8:00.

Have no problem with the producers rigging things so that SOMEHOW Janey wins POV this week - seriously, pretty please?!! This is the most painful season yet for me. Would love if somebody could wipe that smug little shit eating smirk from Dani's face. The bitch bugs.

I've clearly missed something. How did the Coup become null and void?? Anyone?

For one of two reasons.

Either because Booger blabbed about it (which has been hinted at), or because he won HoH (less likely).

I think it's more likely it's because he won HOH. I mean, what's he going to do - overthrow himself? The only thing I've seen about having the Coup taken away from him was that capslocked, poorly spelled comment made on a fan blog. Not exactly a trustworthy source.

But even if Booger were HoH, he could still theoretically use the Coup de Booger...

If he nominated Janey and James, and Danielle used the veto to remove Booger, then couldn't he use the Coup to renominate James? Only the veto holder (Danielle) and the HoH (Booger) would be safe. But BB never made clear who was safe from the Coup - if Dani saves James, which one is the Veto holder? Or are they both?

Who is this Janie person people keep talking about? It's not the girl who was on last year. I loved Janie, a strong, emotionally well-grounded woman who wouldn't take anybody's crap. Now she's a quivering pawn of the Evil Dr. Will, and what makes it so awful is she KNEW what Will was like--she's a BB fan! There's just no excuse.

That's what I was thinking...



I'd say it's the actual veto winner who cannot be nominated by the coup holder...

Is it just me or has "at the end of the day" become the new "you know what I'm saying"?

:P

I've cut your post for brevity.

I guess I don't understand how trying to figure out folk's alliances in the first week is backstabbing? If you remember, Dani wanted to go to Janie and tell her to watch for Jase not agreeing with her noms. That plan got screwed over by Allison.

Janie is a fierce competitor, the HG's just watched her on S6, so the target on her back was huge with everyone (even within her own alliance). I believe from watching the feeds, that if their alliance splintered, she would not have spent one minute making any efforts to try to help any of them stay (Dani bringing them all up to the HOH, and asking them, you tell me what you can bring to this so I can save Kaysar), Janie just looked at her with disdain. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Dani was actually giving the three of them (Howie, Kaysar and Janie) a way to save this and they looked down their nose at her. S6 are their own worst enemy.

Janie, Will and Dani should have been the first targets people tried to rid the game of. In their own way, they are the very best of this game, manipulating, physical prowess and strategy. Instead the made the worst decisions I've ever seen from any group of players in BB history.


This is a game played on the most base levels of human emotions, and most of them not very pretty. I've watched Janelle call Erika and Dani 'loathsome bitches' and say 'I hate them' over and over. I cannot ever recall them saying anything like that. From Dani's perspective she sees Jannelle as her biggest obstacle to the end (though I think she's starting to realize it's actually Will) and a competitor she needs to eliminate, no more, no less. It's Janelle who has totally screwed the social game this season, and I hope it comes back to bite her in the ass. I can't imagine she won't be ashamed and horrified when she actually finds out that Will and Dani played her like a violin with Dani's strategy to have Will romance her. Janelle welcomed the attention because she was the fairy princess with a successful, good looking guy paying an inordinate amount of attention to her. Unfortunately, that became more important to her than her own alliance and now's she paying for it. I have not one bit of compassion for that bullshit act she pulled last night. Was she upset about Howie going, probably a little. She put on that whole little show so Will would feel so bad he hurt her...wah, wah, wah.

Edited to point out this is Sardonic's quote below and not Geekchicklet's (sorry bout that!)



Sardonic, I think Dani would be, along with George, the only person that would nominate CT. I also think that they would totally respect her for doiing it to try and win the game.

Well, it's kind of a moot point now.

Either it went null and void when he won HoH (which is kind of dumb, as he still could have used it) or it went null and void because he blabbed it to Danielle (which was on the feeds, and happened this morning) or it went null and void because he blabbed it to someone prior to Danielle (which was hinted at on the feeds, but we went to Flames when he started talking about it to Dani).

Boobie said this morning that he slipped up on talking about the coup and was caught by video and audio people assigned to watch him, so he lost the coup. It's been talked about several times since-- he also told Will he lost the power. I'm just not sure when he lost it-- whether it was before or after he got HoH.

I truly believe that Danielle's intentions were, in fact, to get rid of Janelle, which would have brought her one big step closer to keeping James to herself for as long as she needed him.


I agree.


I don't know about the decisions being the worst in BB history, but I do think they were pretty darn bad.


I disagree. I have heard both Erika and Danielle say nasty things about Danielle -- in reference to her personal life and not just the game.


If it was an act, I commend her.

I do feel the emotions, at first, were valid. Howie's exit affected everyone. I'm sure it hit Janie the hardest. I can't help but think that it would be rough for anyone seeing a friend have a meltdown like that...especially if you know you are partially responsible, as Janelle did.

-----------------------------

I just want to clarify -- The following was attributed to me, but I didn't say it:

My guess is he lost it before he got HoH, and probably before the vote that evicted Howie. I'm probably wrong, because these people continue to confound me, but I'd think if he had the chance, he'd be awfully tempted to use the Coup to take either Howie or Erika off the mac and throw Janey up there instead. Of course, his Master may have previously convinced him to hold on to the power in case one of them went up next time.

Amen to that!

It's a shame that's she's completely taken with him, no matter how much he betrays her....almost like a battered wife, it's very sad.

But the little fangirl in me has a soft spot for the evil doctor, so I can see how she would be easily fooled by him.

I've seen several references to Will being like an abuser or Janelle being like an abused wife/girlfriend and, I'm sorry, but I can't co-sign that. And I started a seriously tl;dr rant about equating gameplay with abuse but I deleted it because it was bordering on the inflammatory. I'll just say that Will is in no way, shape or form comparable to an abuser, nor is Janelle abused by him.

I agree.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I should have chosen my words better before hitting submit. I'm just annoyed with the way Will can stab Janelle in the back, then make kissy faces and all is okay in Janelle-land. I thought Janelle had more of a backbone.

Again sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone.

So, essentially the Coup dEtat is wasted, right? It was good for three HOH turns, right? He didn't use it so far and won't use it on himself. Big deal!

Moved from live feed highlights thread -- Mags

What a lucky break for Janelle that Booger cant play the coup card. That means that if Chicken Georgie is true to his word, she really does have 2 chances to be vetoed off the block.

Not to stir the pot or anything, but I totally get why some people would compare what's been going on with Will/Janey to an abusive domestic relationship. I think it's a valid opinion. As valid as any others, anyway.

He has ruthlessly manipulated her, betrayed her, then ruthlessly manipulated her again.

He has actually said he can control her. And it's true. He has controlled her. Through emotional manipulation.

True, this has all happened in the context of a game, but Will has crossed the line, in my opinion. He has been cruel.

I wonder if Will manipulated a man in much the same way he manipulates Janelle if people would be calling that emotional abuse? Just curious.

And, I don't watch the recaps - I just read them - so I'm sure I've missed quite a bit of Janelle/Will interaction but how exactly is he ruthlessly manipulating her? The compliments? The crying? What exactly?

Well... I just don't think anybody cares what Dr. Daywalker does to his Butt-Monkey. Nobody likes Butt-Monkey.



Here's just a few examples: Will saying, in the DR, that he knew if he got to Janelle last, before she made her noms, that he could sway her decision. Ane he did.
Will getting to Janey alone and talking to her for HOURS, flattering, cajoling, lying... all to get her to do what he wants.
Will taking advantage of Janey's distress over Howie's eviction to further his own agenda, all under the guise of comforting her.

There is a different dynamic to Will's manipulation of Janey versus his manipulation of say, James, and I totally agree that dynamic is comparable to that found in an abusive (physical and/or emotional) relationship. The same tactics he uses to manipulate Janey wouldn't work on another male. This non-showmance he's created with Janey wouldn't really work with James.....maybe Marcellass but that's another story.

Will is the mast of the mindf*ck, doesn't make him an abuser, but I think if I was his girlfriend and I was watching this, it would make my spidey sense tingle....and not the good kind of tingle either.

Although that's not a direct answer to what I asked ... it's the kind of response I was expecting.



I think that's the product of gullibility on Janelle's part not manipulation on Will's. James, Howie and Kaysar all knew this and yet they left her alone with Will multiple times.



Is that being ruthless or is that just the game? Maybe, I just can't find any of this ruthless when anyone who's ever *seen* BB2 knows that this is how Will plays; he's KNOWN for this. I've seen clips & read recaps of Will actually stating to Janelle in not so many words that he would lie and turn on her (He said at one point something like "We're all liars" "People are going to backstab you" ). And let's not forget that Janelle made it clear in the beginning that she was trying to play Dr. Will as well with much of the same flirting and complimenting etc. If anyone fooled anyone, it was Janelle fooling herself.



I do agree that he couldn't manipulate a man on the same level because the manipulation is primarily based on flirtation. But I do wonder if Will played using just admiration, ego stroking and cajoling and ignored the flirtation with a man would it still be comparable to an abusive relationship?

I think that makes the Will/Janelle somewhat like an abusive relationship is the fact that she still (not anymore I don't think. Thank god.) trusted him after he broke his word and came back for more.



heh. I don't think Will is an abusive person but yes, if I was his girlfriend I would make sure that I was well aware of his ability to lie with ease and to manipulate people.

It was also a joke.
I cosign Minxy's answer to your question.
This is a complex issue. Will's relationship with Janey is different than the kind of relaionships he has with straight men. It resembles a romantic relationship, the kind of situation in which domestic abuse is most likely to occur.



If he wasn't manipulating her, she would not have anything to fall gullible to.



So... you're saying Will is known for being ruthless?

My heart was broken last night by the blindside eviction of Howie. Janey's breaktdown was painful to witness, but I have no doubt to the authenticity. Janey actually did have a brief meltdown moment last season where she fled to the gold room and told Howie she hated herself and that she felt like a worthless loser...tears were in evidence. She was able to regroup fairly quickly with Howie's support. Am I the only feedster who remembers this?

I am thrilled that the producers nullified Boogie's Coup power......dumbass wasn't allowed to reveal it but of course Boogie spills everything to his cohorts.

I am try to figure out whether BB7 Allstars is supposed to be a game or just a weird pseudo-reality show.

There has been so much violation of policy (ie: deals to divide winnings among final 4, and vandalizing house furniture and objects) that I wonder why the producers claim to have penalty nominations for rule breakers. I have never seen a penalty nom given ever.

It seems as if the producers are in collusion with Will/Boogie money division scheme.....they know of the plan and they continue to broadcast the idiotic gloating of these two in their duet DR sessions.

If BB producers are in fact NOT attempting to run a game show but rather a reality entertainment program then I have to wonder why they would violate the basic premise of populist ideology that audiences clamor for. The audience typically enjoys a program where the underdog beats all odds and triumphs over evil and corruption.

Populiism is the reason we all loved Janey and Kaysar at the end of season 6. Maggie may have won the cash, but not the love of the audience. Remember how Maggie was supposed to be a guest on REGIS & KELLY but the show refused to have her unless Janelle were present as well? The audience (and Regis) cheered for Janey and coolly ignored Maggie.

Janey bashers can blame her for her bad decisions this season, but she doesn't spend endless hours making personal attacks on her enemies or plot constantly or bore us with her opinions of her omnicience and grandiosity. At the very least, Janey is real and America loves her because of it.

Janey reaction is definitely a major contributing factor in the whole "abusive relationship" thing, IMO anyway.

As are all abused women. If there werent women to take it, there would be no abusers.
I think if you watch the feeds, you would see how Will does or says something mean or lies to her, then says in a sweetie voice.. You must hate me. Oh go on hate me.. I'm horrible, I'm rotten.. all to get Janie to tell him nooo he isnt. He's swell. Then he fills her head up with how good she at the game, in life, her looks, her toughness.. then he backstabs her. Tells the DR she's a dumbass, sweet talks her into nominating or voting as he wants all with promises of protecting her.. cause he feels something.. doesnt know what, but theres a link between them.. she's special. Then she does whatever he says and he fucks her over again. Then goes back and apologizes again.. tells her he's horrible, he's rotten, she must hate him.. noooo she doesnt. He's swell.. I am? Oh Janie, you're so good, so perfect, so sweet to forgive me for the 1500th ass raping Ive just given you.. No.. I cannot accept your forgiveness! Im horrible, Im rotten.. Nooooo you arent.

ad nausium!!!!

Any human being who fucks with someone's mind when you know they genuinely like you.. is an abuser. I've had friends who did the same thing. It doesnt matter that this is a game. If his personality is such that would allow him to be this ruthless with a persons mind.. he IS an abuser and I really hope his gf is watching, taking notes and is packed and gone by the time he gets out of the BB house.

I've read elsewhere that she (or someone anyway) has taken her pictures and links to her site, etc. off his myspace account. I don't do myspace, so cannot confirm.

You nailed it perfectly.....and now I'm going to go scald myself in the shower in hopes of eliminating that squicky feeling!

Interesting. Yes, the pictures of Will and Erin (with their teeny dog) are indeed no longer on his MySpace. There were at least two of them, perhaps three.

And now I've just embarrassed myself by admitting that 1) I have a MySpace and 2) I have Will friended. I'll just slink away now.

Thank you for the confirmation on that.. Does anyone have the link to her myspace.. or a website or anything where she may have posted a little sumpin sumpin ??

Well I'm gone. I will not watch next season. I've never liked the Jerry Springer show and every time I read the recaps I feel like thats what I'm watching. How anyone could like any of the players except for 2 or 3 that have been voted off or are about to be voted off is beyond me. I don' mind the plotting but these people ( Will, Booger, Dani, Erika, and James ) are just plain mean and nasty. I can't believe the way they talk about and the names they call each other. I'll stick with Survivor and TAR.

Okay.

Well, BB is not a show for the faint of heart to watch or participate in.

Long time lurker and rare recapper (not this season though), but I've been giving a lot of thought to who I want to see in the final 3.

At this point in time, I'm actively rooting for a James/Danielle/Janelle final 3 (dependent on tonight's veto comp and assumption that either nominee wins it). After reading everything that's gone down in the last few days, I can't exactly say that I like Janelle any better, but I do want Dani to work her magic and pull Janelle into an alliance the way she pulled in Lisa. James/Janelle/Danielle would be three very intense competitors who would fight it out in a way that I could respect.

It's already evident that Dani is concerned with the best way to protect James (and say what you will about her, but her loyalty runs very deep to the people who are loyal to her) and for that, I'm sure she's already wondering if James's nomination is a betrayal of LoD. After all, it's very clear that Janey and Will have a connection and she's totally one of the few people in the house who is already running down the F3 and F2 possibilities, realizing that Will would see Janey as a great person to take into the F3 and F2. And it's not a wrong train of thought at all (there is definite justification for either Dani or James taking her to the F2 as well).

CT's loyalty isn't to either of the alliances they've been playing and Booger's nominations make that very clear. If he had nominated KG and Janey or KG and Erika or any combination that included KG, it might have covered them for a bit longer with Dani especially. Plus, it makes the Booger/Erika relationship that much more suspect - for all his talk of cutting her loose, there hasn't been any sort of motion on his part to do so.

It would be perfectly right for Dani and James to turn on their set of allies and pick up Janey instead (exactly as CT appears to be doing). Those three have controlled more power between them than pretty much anyone else and that would make them a force to reckon with. Janey really does have some power if she would only choose to use it and I'd like to see her do so instead of falling prey to Will's manipulations. It's sort of up to her as to whether she'll be the Amy or the Lisa of the season and if it came down to it, I'd rather she showed that she has a backbone.

So I think Dani should encourage James to connect with Janey and then bring her in for a long conversation with both Danielle and James and hash it all out with a promise for the final 3. Getting Janey out of Will's sphere of influence would obviously be a huge part of that plan as well. Having them team up has the potential to completely change the outcome of this game which seems to be a handing of the whole game to CT.