This whole nomination strategy and the communication of it--these are good examples of why I watch the show, and also why it frustrates me to no end.

My problem with Kaysar's strategy isn't the strategy itself, it's that he failed to sell it. Consensus-building is not his strong point, he'd rather come up with the solution and just have people go along with it. Which, I find it isn't so much arrogant to *want* people to fall in line; it is arrogant to assume they will.

That said, I don't think it's so much an error of ego so much as one of inexperience. A lot of young/inexperienced leaders of all kinds make this mistake: "I've done the research, I believe it's a good idea, why aren't you just on board already?" Many of us here have probably had this manager or teacher in our lives, and it's a natural reaction to get annoyed, or rebel. No one wants to just be told what to do, no matter how smart it is. Or, no one in a house full of competitors, at least.

It always surprises me how much people in this game DON'T listen. By listening, you make people feel heard and valuable. You find out their more subtle motivaters, and you can use them to bring them around. When you listen and ask questions, you can often get someone to come around to your way of thinking, and have them think it's his/her idea. Or like, as HOH, why not get a consensus for who the most people in the house want out--they're the ones who are voting, ultimately. If that nom doesn't suit your needs, then you gotta pick up what they're throwing down about the other players in the house, so you can use that to back up the nom you do want. And then, you know, back off. Your job is done. It's in the hands of the voters. Remind them, and the nominees, of that fact, and slink away from the bullseye.

But whatever. I am sales-trained, so it's probably more frustrating to me than most. This stuff will play out the way it'll play out. At least it's been an interesting week.

Yes. But Boogie would be gone. The person who gets the entire house riled up against them, the person who's admitted his sole goal is to get S6 and Janelle and James specifically out of the house before sequester, the person who's more determined than ever to win HoH next week and take them out. Nothing's changed with Kaysar's plan, except that Boogie and Will have become the cool kids of the house and roped in Chicken George and Diane. The floaters that are somewhat on S6's side? Have been since the start. Kaysar's plan has nothing to do with Marci, Erika, and Danielle maybe not going after S6. If anything, Kaysar created doubt in some of the floaters minds because they feel vulnerable wondering why he's going after weaker targets like them, instead of Will and Boogie.

I'm not really even saying his plan was dumb. I just think there's no way it's a good plan for the rest of his alliance. And while I do think he believes his theory about "keeping targets", deep down I think he's much more motivated by the "I don't want to get voted out next week" part of the plan. I think fear is the prime motivator for him right now, and I don't really blame him, I just don't in any way think this was about protecting the alliance. He's protecting himself.

"Having the vapors" is a fairly common expression meaning to feel light headed and dizzy and needing to lie down.

I'm right there with you, jak.

Well, everybody makes some very good points. Except for that one guy. Hee. This is really interesting to me.

I do have one more thing to add, tho. I think another flaw with Kaystar's original plan is that Nak is NOT a floater. Just because one is not a Season Sixer or part of Chilltown does not make one a floater. There are other alliances and there will be other alliances. Other hammies are not necessarily going to join one or the other of the Big Two groups. In addition to that, Booger and Dr. Giggles do not like Nak and would definitely target her at some point. By trying to get her out, Kaystar was actually doing their dirty work. He should have picked someone who fits in better with Chilltown. Jass and Cryane would have been his best noms given what he was trying to do.

edited because "or" is not the same as "and"

I'm the same way, uaintjak - so much so that I need to quit reading this board before everyone is ready to vote me off :)

As seemingly always, I agree with you - James was/is the biggest problem (and the one thing piece of criticism about kaysar that I think is truly valid is that keeping james out of the loop on the decision has caused more of a problem than any problem he could have caused by being included on the original decision discussion) in this whole deal. James didn't understand Kaysar's rationale and the way it was explained to him by janey and howie only created more problems because their explanation didn't make sense to james. It's like I keep saying - James thinks any BB strategy that he didn't have a hand in crafting is automatically bad stategy if not "the worst in BB history". Janey and Howie put it across to james that Kaysar "made a deal" with casper/douche and then further muddy the waters by not explaining that kaysar talked to nakomis mostly because janey was being such a whiney bitch about voting out nakomis. James' paranoid mind puts together the misunderstandings, half-truths, and outright misinformation that janey and howie feed him - immediately understands that something isn't right about the story - and then jumps to the conclusion Kaysar is up to something instead of thinking howie and janey aren't exactly the best source of information. He get's going on kaysar leaving him, janey, and howie out to dry (not that he was really thinking about their safety so much as his but wanted to make a case that would rile them up so he makes it out like kaysar has screwed all three of them and not just him). Janey finds out - and how janey hasn't realized this up until now makes me have to seriously re-visit my sense of just how smart janey is - that she is like target number one in the house and immediately starts freaking out. The only one who has understood that kaysar is working it for the whole team and likes the nominations is howie - because his sense that nakomis was a problem wasn't just some made-up feeling but really based on understanding that nakomis was definately more anti-season six than the others have realized up to this point.

I'm the paranoid one now because I find the timing of all last night's events somewhat curious...james starts a slow burn early in the afternoon and has janey completely in mutiny mode by the evening. At the same time, casper/douche start riling up the rest of the house downstairs which only continues to make it harder for kaysar to keep his alliance and friends all together on the strategy and plan...sure, it's probalby coincidence but......I don't think you could come up with a more anarchic situation coming together even with synchronized watches. I knowk, this is just my paranoia but you have to admit the exaxt timing was almost perfect to create the whole meltdown.

Right, HWG. That's what I meant to say! That's much more concise. :-)

I think the whole oatmeal crisis is part of what is making me sick of people that I've liked in the past like janey and james...they were both snotty and rude to george (goodbye vote for those two) and they are acting like they have been put in Dachau or something. Good God, it's friggin' oatmeal - protein fortified oatmeal at that. James was so over-the-top with the "my muscles are atrapeeing (his word, not mine)" that I was ready to jump through the screen and slap him. It's been one day. One lousy frickin' day and his muscles are shrinking? Shut the fuck up, James. Janey wasn't any better - either. I've sat and listened to these people talk about how they need to eat healthier, stop eating ice cream and other fattening foods, and lose weight = we'll, here you go people. And how do they act - they act like they have been asked to eat garbage. Don't even get me started with Marcellus who has refused to actually even eat the oatmeal. What is wrong with these people? If they are going to let eating oatmeal fuck up their game this much, they need to leave because they are weak and whiny.

If I was in the house right now - and even if I had been on the winning end of the food comp - I'd eat oatmeal morning, noon, and night and talk about how great it was non-stop to just mind-fuck these people.

I totally agree. I mean I don't agree totally with Kaysar's logic, but I think his nominations were sound. And Tooltown certainly is trying to play into his plan - especially the bit about them talking to Howie with Jase and George right there playing second fiddle.

At this point, I don't even think getting George out next is a bad idea - especially if he is being used by Tooltown. But Kaysar just shouldn't have told Janey to put George up after she was almost in tears over Mike gunning for her.

Truth be told, Kaysar needs to be a member of his alliance not trying to make all the decisions and expect them all to fall in line. He should tell them all to do what they think is best until they win the next HoH and then try the soft sell - not the hard sell. And let's not forget that Will won BB2 because EVERYONE else thought "we can get him out next week." I'd really hate to see him win again for that exact same reason.

Besides, as others have said, until at least one of the S6ers goes, no matter how annoying Mike and Will are - S6 will remain the big target for the house. Some people in the house will throw HoHs as long as they feel safe to do so. Kaysar's master plan actually helps Danielle, Marcellus, and Erika more than anyone else. But in the end, taking out Mike and Will can't hurt the S6ers so Kaysar fighting against that really does make him look bad.

Speaking of Dr. Giggles winning the game... didn't someone say, on last night's show, that taking him to the F2 is a good plan because nobody would vote for him to win?

Everybody say it with me now: Will these people never learn?

Unless Kaysar has a clear agreement with Nakomis to make her a part of their alliance, it's bad strategy to keep her over Diane. Nakomis will not make decisions based on "gratitude", she'll make them based on what's best for her in the game.

But she might be on Kaysar's side for awhile (putting up Janelle/James/Howie over him if she gets the chance), which would benefit him personally. Though listening to her conversation with Diane now, I'm not so sure. If he doesn't get her clearly on board, she's just going to think he's stupid-- and she likes Diane, so it's not like she's going to be happy about him sending Diane, who was no threat to him, home. She's just going to be annoyed that he didn't target CT.

Sending Nakomis home is the best move, Kaysar just doesn't see it.

And that was the point James made. If you're going to bring Nakomis onboard, you need to use the veto, save both of them, and send Boogie or Jase out. If you're not going to do that, you need to send Nakomis home. I'm just really not getting why they're so sure she'll never hook up with CT. Maybe I'm just catching the feeds at weird times, but she seems to be constantly with Boogie, and both Boogie and Will have talked about how cool she is. It seems so obvious to me that she'd fall to that side. I'm not sure what the BB6'ers are seeing that I'm not.

I think a cool twist to this game would be having all the evictees on the jury.

Also, I think it's the lack of calories from slop that the slopsters had to adjust to. Hopefully they're adapting and bulking up on the protein powder.

Marcellus is just an idiot for not eating at all.

It's so hard not to scream when reading about this conversation between Nak and Diane. It's obvious that Nak thinks she had some great plan and it all fell apart last night. BUT if she had taken James and Janelle up on their offer and played into their hands, she might not be on the block right now. Then she could have campaigned to save Diane.

I don't really have much sympathy for Diane either because she and Nak could have gone to Erika and formed a three-person alliance rather easily. For all their talk about no one can win against all these ready-made alliance, I haven't gotten any sense that they've tried to make things happen. It's like they thought they couldn't deal with anyone so they just sat back and watched. Now they're shocked at the outcome. It makes no sense. I don't think either of them deserve to be there at this point. No matter what is going on with the S6ers - at least they are all trying to play the game.

Janey did bring up that Kaysar needs to get a handshake deal out of Nakomis. He agreed...we'll see what happens.

Kaysar and James need to talk as well, or Nakomis will be the one going home. Janelle, Howie, and most likely Erika will vote to keep Nak. Danielle and at this point James want her gone. Marcy flip-flops a lot, but I think ultimately he'll vote with Janelle. That's four for Nakomis and two for Diane. That means Tool Town will be the deciding factor, and I think they'll vote to keep Diane, because she's easily manipulated (which was painfully evident last night). There are still Kitchen George and Jase, but they'll likely vote with Tool Town. Unless Kaysar can secure James's vote, Nakomis goes home.

Interestingly enough, Tool Town believes that Kaysar wants Nakomis gone, because he told her that, and she in turn probably told Booger. So Tool Town might vote to keep Nakomis, which, if Kaysar gets a handshake deal out of her, is good for S6. If he doesn't, it's not going to do him any good, and he'd be better off with Diane staying.

It will be especially interesting if it comes down to a tie.

For Nakomis to stay: Janelle, Howie, Marcellas, Erika, James
For Diane to stay: Will, Mike, George, Jase, Danielle

That leaves Kaysar as the tie-breaker.

It seems like Marcellas is sticking with S6. Danielle has said she won't bite the hand that feeds her, and she has talked at length, in diary room, about how she wants to be honest this season, so it looks like S6 is safe with her as well, at least for a little while. Without a handshake deal (and maybe even with one) the survivor out of Diane/Nakomis is gunning for S6. Tool Town 2.0 is gunning for S6 (Will, Booger, George, Jase).

Erika, to me, is the really interesting one. She totally has her options open. She can throw HoH, because she believes S6 won't target her (true), and Tool Town won't gun for her yet (true). She can win HoH and appease the house by putting up James, Janelle, or Howie - but that would piss Kaysar off, and she has told Marcy that she wants to keep Kaysar and Janelle. Tool Town can royally piss her off by constantly calling her a floater (like Booger did last night) and she can win HoH and put up Tool Town. Or (and I think this is most likely if she actually wins HoH), she can put up Kitchen George and one other, because yesterday during Pool Time with Kaysar, she was saying that Kitchen George would have to be dealt with. Who the other person she would put up would be is a complete mystery to me at this point.

I think "Diane will go to CT" is Kaysar's excuse for saving Nakomis. Or a really bad read-- Diane is weak, and will go where she thinks the power is.

I think Kaysar feels saving Nakomis is what's best for his game. That's why he's had a hard time selling it to his alliance-- it's hard to see how that's best for them-- or anyone else in the game. And, it wasn't his original position, so they aren't understanding where this change of heart is coming from.

That said, the whole keep CT in to distract attention from Seasick isn't a bad plan-- a little naive, but it has possibilities. I think sub-alliance building would be needed to support that, though, and that's not happening, either, as far as I can see.

My personal favorite nom would have been Nak/Boogie. But it's too late now.

A solid deal with Nakomis to protect all of S6 for some limited period of time would turn this all around, if Kaysar can accomplish it. Unbelievably, he needed some convincing from Janelle last night before he agreed to it-- he wanted it to be "understood". But he did come around, so that's something.

But... does he need to? At this point, it's no longer up to him who goes home, he's not a voter. I mean, he can try and influence whatever, or people might ask him who to vote out to suck up to the HOH of the week. But at this point, his actual power is kind of done, right? Am I the only one who sees it this way?

ETA: Will & Boogie will try to vote with the majority, every time, if possible. They're more interested with being in line with people remaining in the house than singling themselves out to make a point.

I totally agree. I've never understood why the herd has always felt it should follow the will of the HoH. Or why the HoH didn't just make noms that they could live with no matter how the voting went, and leave the campaigning and vote wrangling up to the rest of the hamsters.

But, for some reason what Kaysar thinks matters to the other hamsters, and so, here we are.

Not just disagreeing for the sake of diagreeing but.......

- What 'agreement' ever holds in BB?

- Diane plays with more emotion and is more vengeful than Nakomis

At the risk of sounding like a broken record - every reason your stating for voting out Nakomis is why Kaysar focused on her first. Kaysar has only changed his opinion because Janelle was being a whiny bitch about having to vote out Nakomis. If Janey would just stick with a plan she agreed to and not get stuck in Jame's "reality distortion field of extreme paranoia", everything would be great but all night last night everyone is telling him he is being stubborn by not saving Nakomis and putting up Boogie. Even now, after the veto, Marcellus is telling diane and naco that the problem is that kaysar won't listen to them. The problem is that he has and that's making him agree to the idea of trying to convert Nakomis.

This is season six all over again only this time the people are nakomis and diane as opposed to busto and clown whore. james was constantly selling the idea that busto and clown whore should, logically, want to switch sides and, if not logically, could be bullied into switching sides...they are now doing the same thing with nakomis and beaten kaysar down so much that he is going to agree, wrong-headedly, to keep nakomis in no small part because janelle is more scared of diane than nakomis.

Kaysar saw the best move two days ago but he's own alliance is going to so confuse the situation that there is a real danger that he'll push voting out diane instead of nakomis trying to give the rest of his alliance half-a-loaf instead of no loaf at all. The good side of this is that kaysar doesn't have a vote and that james and howie are anti-nakomis. If Kaysar starts trying to campaign for nakomis it might even make casper/douche anti-nakomis.

I understand Janelle wasn't ever 100% on board voting out Nak, but the only time James wanted to save Nak was when he thought they could get rid of Mike right? When it comes to Nak or Diane, Howie, James and Marcellas all say Nak right? Mike, Will and Jase will probably want to keep Diane, so I think Nak is toast this week but a lot can happen in two days.

Anyway, I think I finally understand what Kaysar's "think three weeks down the road" is all about when it comes to keeping Will and Mike in the house. What Kaysar isn't saying is that he is thinking of what the house will do when one or two of the S6ers are no longer there.

That's what James and Janelle aren't putting together. James and Janelle are thinking about what benefits the S6ers if they all stay in the house and that probably is getting rid of Mike and Will. Kaysar is thinking about what benefits the S6ers once one or two of them are gone and that is having another dominate team for the house to go after.

I admit it's not bad for Kaysar to think this way since we all have to admit it's unlikely the S6ers will continue to dominate. But I'm not sure this makes him a good teammate.

Great post. Now I'm back firmly behind Kasyar. He made several housekeeping mistakes, but the plan itself is sound. (Housekeeping mistakes--not making sure James knows enough to allay his paranoia, the condescension when he's questioned).


Exactly. They all act like there's only one way to interpret what being HOH means. It really doesn't mean being able to dictate the entire week's events, but for some reason, they all fall into the mode of thinking that.


Excellent point. I agree, I don't care which one leaves at this point. Neither played smart so far this week. Nak has really lost my respect as a gamer, and Diane has just been invisible and whiny.

The idea of being prepared to sacrifice members of your team in order to ultimately win yourself applies to war, chess, and Big Brother. This is how Kaysar thinks, I'm pretty sure. It's not a bad way to approach the game, and I'm not even sure that he's throwing them under the bus too soon--they're all targets right now, early on, and better them than him, as far as he's concerned. Fair enough. I just think he could have built a little more confidence with them than he did. Not lie to them, necessarily, and tell them "This is for YOU" when it's not. But, again, he coulda sold his plan better.

Your front lines aren't going to sacrifice themselves in battle for you if you instill no faith or loyalty. You just won't have front lines.

Why are we so obsessed with Kaysar's strategy? Is it just because he's HOH, or because he's Kaysar, or because we have this weird love/hate thing going on? Or because it's at least a little more complicated than, "I HATE THAT BITCH SHE MUST GO!"[/Allison]

Speaking for myself...I think the master manipulation that resulted in Crappy's demise made me hungry for more of THAT kind of thing from Kaysar...and, thus far, it's been a long wait!!

I see Nakomis as the type that would keep her word, if given. I don't really think that about anybody else in that house.

Kaysar didn't change his mind about voting Nakomis out until after he had a talk with Nakomis-- it had nothing to do with Janey, who was on board with it, until she and James started tossing around the idea of saving both Diane and Nakomis in favor of putting someone from CT up. But with Diane and Nakomis as the only choices, it's not making sense to vote out Diane over Nakomis. That's what's confusing to people.

Kaysar isn't "in danger of" pushing out Diane instead of Nakomis-- he's already committed to it, and he won't sway from that in spite of the best advice from his alliance and others. That's the problem.

ETA: Kaysar's already told Nakomis today that he'll be campaigning for her. And no deal in sight. It sounds like the others are trying to figure out the reason for voting Diane out over Nakomis.

I guess it helps that he has a stragey. It doesn't matter if I agree with him or if I think it will work out for him or his team. At least he is playing the game. That gives us something to debate and think about and so few HoHs do this.

That said, I still hope James wins the next HoH and declares open war on Chilltown (he can nominate Mike and Jase for all I care). If these people are going to be this obnoxious when they aren't on the block, nominate their butts and make them suffer a little.

I also have to say that I hope Will and Mike are on slop next week. And George. He's kind of bugging me even though I can't fully explain why. I usually like the older guy in the house that everyone picks on - like Gerry in season three - but George bugs me.

All the talk on the feeds from Janelle and Kaysar, re: "I think Nakomis will keep her word," is KILLING me. You guys haven't asked her for her word! She owes you shit. Listen to Marcellus! You want to keep the stronger competitor, who you haven't asked for anything from, who you nominated, and whose best friend you're planning on evicting? And you think she's going to help you guys out? It makes NO sense. Seriously, Marcellus was right on when he said that Chilltown hasn't done anything to Nakomis while you guys nominated her. Dude, even Howie's smart enough to know that keeping Nakomis only makes sense if you actually get a promise out of her.

And I think Kaysar fucked this up, because I don't think they have the votes to save Nakomis, which means a vengeful Diane will be around, and she won't have any sense of obligation to the S6'ers for saving her.

Now that we have only one HoH, who breaks the tie? The HoH or Veto holder?

I only ask because even though Wednesday's vote is a long way away, we could get a tie.

Voting for Diane to stay: Chilltown, George and Marci.
Voting for Nak to stay: S6ers, Erika and Danielle.

Marci is questionable but so are many of the votes for Nak. They are going to have to really campaign if they want to keep Nak. Otherwise I think the best they can hope for is a tie.

I think because it's the catalyst for most of what is going on in the house right now. Almost all the (interesting) action is a result of Kaystar's current plans.

For some reason, I just imagine Chilltown flipping when they find out Nakomis has the BB6 votes. Will and Boogie were already talking about how sad it was that they were going to lose her when she was their best chance (besides Alison) of taking on S6. I think they assumed it was a done deal at that point. Now that they know there's a shot, I think Nakomis will stay easily...votes to keep her: Janelle, Howie, Will, Boogie, Danielle, Erika....and after that the rest of the house will fall in line. The only way I see this not happening is if S6 gets suspicious about CT wanting to keep her and realizes that yes, she's totally on the same page as them, and yes, she is the bigger threat to S6.

I hope they don't learn - because Will winning again would be awesome!

As for Kaysar, it's unclear at this point whether his nominations will help or hurt his alliance - but since alliances can't win the game, and only one person will win - and it's very unlikely his nominations will hurt him individually I think he did good.

It would be stupid to purposely hurt your own alliance, but at this point there are so many possible scenarios that will neither hurt nor help, so why shouldn't Kaysar choose one that keeps the target off his back? I'd rather see him play partially for himself, than be all about the "team" like he was last year. Now that, would be stupid!

He said that he had studied the past seasons and the ones who survived only took out floaters and loners. If you take out a Lion then you look strong and become a target. If that is his reasoning then keeping nak makes sense for his strategy because she is one fierce player.

FWIW I think Will and Boogie are hillarious. Can't take too much of them for long but oce in awhile they are great for a change of pace. I am especially looking forard to them crying like Li*ttle girls when their bad asses finally get nominated.

Due to my younger sister being a total fucking dumb ass and getting the living shit kicked out of her by her "friend," I haven't seen quite as much tonight as I'd have liked. But.. here's what I've been able to pick up on very clearly, maybe because I didn't watch all the stupid bull shit in between. Someone tell me if I missed something somewhere in the middle that would alter/counter-act what I saw...

Earlier we had Janey & Marcy in the HOH taking a tubby, bubbles and all. During their discussion, they made it pretty clear that the two of them are working together.

Later, we had Erika laying on the SoFA outside with Boogie. Boogie and Erika both clearly stated that they were together. Who would Boog pick between Diane & Erika? Erika, he says. He said he knows that if he's going to make a run, it will be with Erika, not Will.

Not long after that, also on the SoFA, we have Erika & Marcy talking about the two of THEM being together. Discuss the pros & cons of keeping Nak or Di. Both can see both sides of the coin and don't know which way to go. They talk about if they keep Nak, they might have a chance to align with her. Marcy says he & Erika should hook up with Dani & Kitchen George and then they can be the most boring alliance EVA! Erika says to speak for yourself, she won the veto! It was cute.

What's funny is that Marcy stressed with Janey that he doesn't think Diane will go with Will & Boogie because she doesn't want to be played this season and she's at least smart enough to know they'd play her. While Marcy was with Erika, he seemed to stress the same point but then said he was thinking about going back on his word with Diane and keeping Nak b/c he thinks she will target Chilltown, which is good for them (he & Erika) because they need S6 to stay in power a little longer.

What I don't get is this... how is S6, a four person alliance, not larger threat to M&E than Chilltown, a two person alliance with only one person trying to get to the end? In a numbers game, you don't want to keep a HUGE alliance around too long. Get the numbers down while you still have enough other people around you to vote with you! Morons!

Also, if M & E want to try to allign with Nak, why would they wait until after she's voted to stay? Why not approach her now and see where she stands with things if she stays.

Normally I would say you are right, but in this case, Marci and Erika are both in good graces with the S6ers. They don't have to try to win HoH for a couple of weeks because they know Chilltown will go after S6ers and for all of Kaysar's talk of going after floaters - he doesn't mean Erika, Marci or (probably) Danielle.

Those three can probably dodge the bullet for at least three weeks and then see who is left to from Chilltown and the 6ers to team up with.

I don't think putting up Nakomis and Diane was a bad move, per se... of the non S6-ers, they're probably the two fiercest competitors. I think that the S6ers know they need to dominate the HOH, and with Nakomis or Diane gone, that would be a lot easier. Jase wants to fly under the radar, Will throws challenges, George does not seem likely to ever win, and that leaves... Boogie.

I think that Kaysar did make an okay move, but I think all he assured himself was that a) James and Janelle feel he sold them out and b) two men that are unlikely to ever win HOH would probably nominate his alliance members instead of him. What troubles me was that Kaysar seemed completely unwilling to listen to any input. I agree, James is paranoid and Janelle seems to be too soft when it comes to voting out threats that are nice to her after last year, when she had a house full of bitches bent on making her life miserable.

Which to keep? I would say Nakomis, and here's why. Who do you think that Jase, George, Will, and Boogie have more in common with: Diane or Nakomis? Nakomis might stick with them out of necessity, but not choice, and when the bloated 7-person S6 alliance inevitably splinters, she's a good person to have in the house. Even if keeping her is bad for, say, Kaysar or Howie, I think that Danielle, Erika, and Marcellas are better off with Nak in than Diane.

Now, Nakomis is the most dangerous when it comes to winning HOH, and I think Kaysar is being stupid thinking that she's going to be "grateful" but I still see Diane being vindictive and emotional and sticking with Chilltown all the way. Nakomis has a choice of flipping or being stuck with an alliance of four men she doesn't actually appear to like or have anything in common with and doing Boogie and Will's dirty work. Either way, Nakomis will be a good player without any real power.

Ultimately, EVERYONE in the house is playing for themselves, not for a team. This is not last season, when it was seen as a big self-righteous outrage to not be focused on a "good" person winning. Everyone is looking at their alliances and checking the ejector seat and figuring out a backup plan.

I have to RANT and RAVE! We had a big thunderstorm where I live. Have to resort to AOL. About a month ago, we had issues with the cable people, so I signed us up to AOL-free for 3 months, then got cable back. After electricity comes back, and I am all wired, no modem, so I do the AOL. Sure I can access internet, but I am constantly getting updated through AOL. Feeds of course are choppy.

OK, BB.- I thought I heard Janey and Kaysar dissing Erika over Diane. Are they nuts. Atleast Erika is may be with them, but Diane, definately not. Must have missed something.

Also, I think they have more of a chance with Nak, maybe not much, but more than with Diane. Diane will be always be with CT, and CT will have her vote. Nak, I think will go with whomever is in power. At this rate Sov 4 needs her vote, if they are in power. If they are not, then no difference.

*edited to say-mental note, cancel AOL before the free trial runs out*

We've all forgotten the key to Nakomis. Kaysar has to get her to pinkie swear that she won't come after them if she's saved.

We are on the same page...I too have been waiting for the pinkie swear and am shocked that Janey didn't point it out. I couldn't believe Dani was telling Janey how to trust Nak. Janey is usually so good at watching the shows and noticing these things.

Do we think a houseguest might get to be voted back in again this year?

I keep wondering about this when Will keeps talking about be voted out early. I wonder if he thinks he'll just be voted right back.

The idea of someone getting voted back in also makes me think people like Marcellas, Danielle, and Erika will continue to throw competitions. They have no reason to make themselves the target of someone who might come back.

So that really does mean the battle in the house will be between Chilltown (Jase included) and S6ers. Whoever stays between Diane and Nak should go back under the radar (but they need to play the game more like Erika - get in good with both sides). That leaves Chilltown and the S6ers with the choice of taking out George or each other.

I think George might be in trouble next week if people are thinking about being voted back in. If America votes, Chilltown won't want to go up against a S6 person because they know America loved the S6ers. If the house votes, neither Chilltown or the S6ers will want it to compete against a person of the opposing alliance. If it's between the first 4 evicted - like it has been in the past - that means it will be between Allison, Nak or Diane, and the next two voted out. If someone was trying to plan for all possibilities (which does seem like Kaysar style) getting George out next makes sense. There is no way to know if there will be someone voted back in this year as a twist or if Kaysar is considering this possibility, but if he is, I may have underestimated him.

Janey has said on the feeds that there is time in the schedule that would allow for that.

Ok, so this is my first post and it is going to sound very catty but Janey is such a pretty girl....If only her parents had taught her to eat with her mouth closed!!!

I like this plan - and seriously I think it's Janelle's only hope to make it past week four. I still think she'll be evicted the first time she's put up, but at least this way she has a chance to delay it until the numbers shift - and maybe that way she can stick around a little longer.

But the main reason I like this plan is because while it's designed to shield Janelle and Kaysar, the person it really shields is Will. Most of the house will go after any of the four season six players before going after him and Boogie - so if even season six isn't targeting Will, then no one is!

Plus, I can cosign any plan that leaves the favorite/strongest/most controversial/best players in the game until the end, and gets out the players who are just there to round out the cast. Did any of you catch Boogie telling Will he'd cosign something, and then they both cracked up? Clearly they *enjoy* the lingo as much as we do!

The problem with Operation Oracle is the arrogance upon which it is based.

For Operation Oracle to succeed, the things that Kaystar and Janey said they believe have to actually be true, and they're just not.

Kaystar and Janey aren't smarter than everyone, they cannot remain in control, and they cannot beat Nak or anyone else all the time.

Those "floaters" aren't stupid. They're smart, they're competetive, and they're strategic. Kaystar and Janey aren't the only ones who "see" things. And Kaystar doesn't see or know everything. For him to think of himself as an Oracle is astoundingly arrogant and stupendously stupid.

For a master strategist, Kaystar is making a rookie mistake. He is underestimating the opposition.
Didn't he say something about that the other day?

It's one thing to pump yourself up, but it's another to believe the hype.

Yeah, I have to admit, the arrogance of Janelle is starting to get to me (I wrote Kaysar off last year). Her anger at the floaters, her honestly wanting to target Erika (the woman who helped save her ass with the Ali eviction), her offense that people are daring to target her. It's just really annoying. And what I'm not getting with this whole floater plan is that supposedly it's intended to make Chilltown more of a threat, but um, S6 in the meanwhile are the ones actually nominating and evicting them. They're going to start losing numbers and driving the remaining ones right to the other side. They NEED to take out a Chilltowner next week in order to not lose all their periphery support. Yeah, it sucks that they're not allowed to play the low-key game that Erika and Marcellus can, and I get why it bugs them that those people have a better shot at winning than they do, but evicting them when they still need those people for numbers is incredibly short-sighted.

I'm with you on that, bttrcup, for the most part. I wouldn't mind Will staying, but Booger has to go before I can enjoy the doc, I think. He has flashes of fun moments, like when he snarks, but the constant "I'm awesome, visit this website, we gave them great footage" crap has absolutely got to stop. Booger has no redeeming qualities in my book, so I'm hoping if Boogtard goes, Will might turn into an enjoyable hamster. So far, not so much.

I love me some Diane and Nakomis, they were two of my votes to go in the house. They've kind of turned into a disappointment, which I guess I should have expected. Nakomis was a very laid-back player until her alliance was threatened in S5. She might still redeem herself. Diane was fun mostly because she kept "parannoying" and losing it. I had hoped both girls would step it up when they were nominated, but, eh, not so much.

Eribka I could learn to like, I suppose, but she's kind of laying too low for me now. Marcy can be lots of fun, but he spends too much time bitching. He's sort of hot and cold with me right now. Jase is just yuck.

I love Kaysar, even with his hubris. I love Janelle. Even though Howie was dead to me when he started his viscous Nakomis bashing, he's redeemed himself by staying strong in the face of the Boogtard/Dr STFU attacks he's suffered. James...James is kind of like a Marcy to me. When he's not talking about how smart he is or bitching about the other hamsters (because he's so smart), he can come up with some great one-liners. Unfortunately, where Marcy started off bad and seems to be moving to my positive side, James started off good and is moving to my negative side.

And Kitchen George? Don't ask.

My biggest surprise hit is Danielle. I never watched her season, so I knew nothing about her. But listening to her, she is grade-A prime beef hamster. She's smart, she notices things, and she's honest. If she'd cut down a little on the constant talking about herself, the "It is what it is" comments and such, she'd be almost perfect.

It's a pretty big mistake to think that Erika and Danielle are "floaters" just because they aren't clearly aligned with Chilltown or S6ers. Erika has already proven she can change the course of events in the house and win competitions. While Danielle came on stronger than she should have the first week, she has proven she is a strategist. She did come in second place after all - better than any of the S6ers.

The first time the S6ers make the "floaters" feel like they aren't safe, they will start competiting, they will start winning, and they will target S6. Operation Oracle is a foolish plan because it assumes one big thing that is probably not true - that these All Stars are stupid enough to go after Chilltown just because they annoy the crap out of them. They might go after Chilltown but not until they get rid of at least one S6er.

The good news for me in all of this is that I do like Erika and Danielle. So while I want to see Janelle and James stay in the house (I just don't care about Kaysar or Howie that much), even if all of the S6ers get taken out I will still have people to cheer for.

I'm with james tonight - season six ought to go to chill town and make a full alliance against the rest of the house...terrorize all the floating losers like danielle and marcellus and burn the mother to the ground

"The Others" would never make a deal - not for strategic reasons, but because they are way too jealous of the S6 people. They are just too popular and these guys don't want to be second fiddle. Look at how Booger rips on Janelle - you know it's because he was after her and then when she showed no interest he started to get nasty. Ick.


Just some thoughts on the night's craziness before I explode...

James - throwing his team under the bus. Yes, I know, it's not a team sport but you don't squeal like a stuck pig as soon as you can't handle the pressure. Spilling everything to Danielle and telling her to make it clear to Will that James isn't going after him is just wrong. Couldn't you have at least waited a day and thought things through? Sold S6 out to Marcellus as well making sure he knew how things weren't James' fault and how he didn't want Cryane to leave in the first place.

He was mad at Janelle for dropping his name to Booger re: MMS discusssion. Ok, a dumb mistake by Janey but not malicious and James was right there. Calm down man. I don't believe it is "throwing him under the bus" as he called it. He needs something to whine about and now he has it.

And whose idea was it to storm downstairs and lay it out for the floaters? I believe it was James' idea, and he didn't want to be none to nice about it. He tried to work it with Marcellus, but then what? As soon as things didn't go his way he is making a break?

No, the other S6 members weren't as open with James as they could have been, but he was on board with Kaysar's plan, again. Seemed to get things straight in his head, again. It's pretty clear that his relationship with Danielle is strong, as evidenced by his comment that went somethng like this:
James-Janey is afraid of you.
Danielle-blah blah blah
James-Well, she should be afraid of you.

Marcellus - My, my - he wants all the perks and protection of first string while being a bench warmer. He wanted to have input on the nominations then didn't want the groups input on his vote. He shouldn't have gone off promising Diane anything until he knew if his vote was going to make a difference. And how unbelievable to say that S6 is crazy to keep changing it's mind on who they wanted out last week and this week. Has anyone changed their mind more than Marcellus? (No.) Didn't he promise yesterday to vote out Diane? (Yes.)

And as for S6 not "welcoming" Cryane with open arms...she is the one that needed to go to them. It was her head on the block, not the groups. If he felt so strongly about it then he should have brought Cryane together with them. But guess what, Cryane doesn't want to be with S6 as we all know. Wonder how Marcy is going to feel when he sees how Cryane bashed Janelle and made her the top eviction priority? Believe me, if/when S6 go on the block this week they will have Marcy in the background saying "....if you would have welcomed Diane..."

Kaysar - Ugh. Yeah, the plan could have worked but that is over and done with. He should have taken an extra minute to settle himself down and think through if he really wanted to draw the line in the sand with his own groups floaters. Justified - yes. Smart - no.

I believe I caught him saying that he did make nice with Marcy (as did James) after things settled down and I hope he did, but too late. He has seen how Marcy is like a dog with a bone when he feels wronged and this won't be any different.

This could have gone down without all the drama but now everyone knows that you couldn't pull the vote off and you look whipped. And watch it start to get even uglier when WB find out how it all went down.

I don't know how S6 is going to right this ship, other than by winning HOHs. I hope I'm wrong but I think this has caused irreparable (sp?) damage to the group.

Boy...weren't all the kiddies playing so nice together just yesterday?

Merging double-posts. ~Doom

That's pretty much all they can do anyway right? Someone linked a video of Jase and Kaysar talking about teaming up down the line. Kaysar also is close to Erika. Janelle has Marcellas. James has Danielle. Howie may be the only one not working a plan B. But in the end, I think they'll stay together as long as they can.

The thing is as much as Marci is a drama queen - I kind of think he's right. Kaysar should have just made nominations and let the house decide. He should not have tossed his hat in with either Nak or Diane and just accepted that whoever stayed would be mad at him. I think all of this happened because Kaysar wants the person who stays to be grateful like Danielle was last week.

It doesn't help that S6 was never 100% together on these noms or who they were going to evict. Marci is also right that Kaysar shouldn't ask people to keep his word for him if it means they have to break theirs. Besides he did give in to Janie last week on Allison - you can't keep playing that hand over and over again with someone who is only 5th in your alliance.

I really don't like how Kaysar expects the "floaters" to get rid of Chilltown for him and then gets upset that people might not play the game as he wants them to. That's a little too close to the way Maggie played for my taste.

I just can't support Marcellus on this one because he flip-flops more than anyone. He agreed to vote out Alison last week and then flip-flopped when CT started getting the numbers to dump Danielle. He went back and forth on Diane/Nakomis all day yesterday, and then finally stuck with Diane once he knew CT had the numbers to get it done. To me, that makes him an extremely dangerous player to keep in the loop. He's not only a waffler, but he's someone who's shown twice now that he's just as willing to back CT as he is the Sovs. If the Sovs keep HoH and put him up against a CT member, I have to say I think it will be both a just and a not entirely foolish nomination. He can't be depended on at all.

That said, I do agree with you on Kaysar and the imperiousness of his HoH reign. I'm totally on the Sovs side, and even I kind of think it'd do them good to lose HoH this week so they can regain some perspective.

I'm so far behind it's not even funny. But from what I've read it looks like Diane is staying. That's unfortunate, but it's not the end of the world. They have to look on the bright side: they're going into week three and they are all still around. I'm rooting for the Sovs even with all their faults. The main reason is that these guys (with the exception of JudasJames) have been targets every week they've played. If Will and Booger think the Sovs will turn on each other once they get put on the block they got another think coming. These guys are battle-hardened and they know how to handle the pressure cooker that is the macaroni (with the exception of JudasJames). And I think if these guys can go toe-to-toe with the Fiendship and hold their own, this season they should do okay. Now I'm gonna go catch up and come back with my 2 cents.

Well, it was a good plan, for what it's worth. It just sucked in execution.

I don't blame Marcellas for sticking to his vote to keep Diane. I do blame him for being a waffler that goes where the power is, and for bitching about it every two seconds.

Kaysar actually got the deal from Nakomis, which was great, but he had too many things working against him this week. His own pride; Marcy and his flip flops; Janelle and her nervousing; Dani and her honesty; and James and his parannoying.

I've finally decided that I don't like James.

I hope that Janelle and Kaysar, at least, see that of the three (Erika, Danielle, and Marcellas), it was Danielle that told them straight up honestly what she was going to do, and it was Erika that agreed to vote with them. When it comes time to throw a floater under the bus, I suggest putting up Marcellas and James. Ha.