General House Analysis and Discussion VII Options

[TubeBoob]

The difference between the Donatos and Zack to me is the Donatos have had a plan along. I know some disagree that Dicks strategy is his aggression, please I am not arguing that. That has been what he has said and what he has stuck to all along.(whether that is the reason or not who knows). Dani has been strong in comps & good at letting daddy take all the heat. She has also been consistent.

I have liked Zack since early on, even when it wasn't but a few people on that train. I still say he "Zacked" his way up to the F4. He had no clue what he was doing and made no sense at all when he used to try and talk strategy with people,bless his little bunny heart. I think back to some of his theories and they were so bizarre. He has totally stepped it up when it counted. So in my opinion he deserves to win just as much as Dick or Dani.

I will be happy with whoever wins out of the three. All will get some money no matter what at this point. I think Spawn will slide daddy some dough if she makes F2 and he doesn't.

I think some (not all) of Zach's nerdiness and convoluted strategy talk was a camouflage -- i.e., "this guy is so stupid that he's not a threat!". As a result, there were always bigger fish for the other players to fry; they could pick off dumb Zach later on in the game. I'm also sure that some thought that absent D&D, he would make a good F2 partner. I mean no one would vote for him to win.

[Iron Fortified E...]

I don't think Zach ever tried to play stupid. Nor do I think that he actually is stupid. Inarticulate? Yes. Socially awkward? Gawd, yes. The house was full of superior, entitled beings who assumed Zach was stupid because he wasn't them.

I think Zach played the only game that was open to him. Did he mastermind every move that got him where he is? Of course not. Everybody's strategy is affected by the actions of the rest of the hammies. Sometimes that's to an individual's benefit, sometimes not.

This post has been edited by Iron Fortified Elli: Sep 12 2007, 07:40 PM

[TubeBoob]

I look at it like this - would either one of the Donatos have made it this far if they had been the only Donato in the house?

Zach is having to essentially take them both on at the same time. If he wins HOH, he deserves it all.

It's impossible to say for sure if they'd have made it this far without each other in the house. They both would have played differently with different circumstances. This is the hand they were dealt.

I still believe Dani played the best game. I still believe she should win. I also believe that the jury is full of bitterness that would reward Zach for his bumbling along not knowing what was going on until week 9 or 10, when Dani and Dick told him what had happened the previous weeks that he had no idea about.

I'm also still holding out for a Donato final 2.

I'm bitter and I wasn't even in the house! Dick and Dani have ruined BB for me, possibly forever. I don't think it's fun to watch people abuse others and then sit back and enjoy the pain they've caused. I would have believed that it was a game, if privately they had expressed regret for what they had to do to win. Instead, when the two of them are alone, they gloat and talk about how much fun it has been to hurt the other players.

After I"ve watched them for too long, I always feel like I need to go take four or five showers. The only comfort I take in this is, when it's all over, we will be done with them. They will have to deal with each other for the rest of their lives.

I've always thought that under-the-radar players are playing the game smarter. This strategy tends to put you in the position of having odds of not being nominated at least modestly favorable to you in any given HOH/veto. While you'll never be totally safe, you're also not wholly at risk either (like Jase was during the infamous six-finger plan). Since the game is all about numbers, having the numbers on your side most of the time is a huge edge.

I've never seen the payoff of being a balls-out player as sufficient to compensate for the risk involved (except in the final few competitions). Trying to dominate ends up putting you on the bad side of the numbers more often than not, and you can't play that gamble that many times and expect to keep winning. Dick and Daniele only managed to pull this off because they successfully talked Eric and Jessica into an F4 deal - without that, there's no way they would have survived the crucial F8 to F5 period where many high-flying players go down. The influence of AP over Eric and Eric's subsequent influence over Jessica was a confluence of circumstances that had the highly unusual result of players acting against their own interest. If I were playing this game, I wouldn't want my strategy to depend on other people making dumb choices. It worked for the Donatos, but it was definitely a one-off.

One big disadvantate floaters have to overcome is that there is never anyone watching your back.


merged posts. Double-posting is only allowed in the recap/screencap threads. ~tooletta

This post has been edited by tooletta: Sep 12 2007, 07:57 PM

[ahab1013]

I sense a general feeling that Dick played a better game than Zach, and on the surface it might seem so. But as some have stated Zach's lack of game may have been a strategy so he is undervalued. At the same time, Dick's 'strategy' worked, in part, because Eric was forced to help him via all the America's Choice stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I think Dick made himself unlikeable for several reasons and it worked to his advantage- it always does because when you get to a point in the game people WANT to keep the jackass to go against. But I think he overstates how great he played because he got a heck of a lot more help that he knows.

[Iron Fortified E...]

I soooo much wish this was during Sho2. I wanna see Kaysar and Howie!!!

Never mind. They're on a separate feed for an interview like Janelle last week. Still, screencaps would be much appreciated and drooled over.

This post has been edited by Iron Fortified Elli: Sep 12 2007, 07:59 PM

[pvrunner]

... I still believe Dani played the best game. I still believe she should win. I also believe that the jury is full of bitterness that would reward Zach for his bumbling along not knowing what was going on until week 9 or 10, when Dani and Dick told him what had happened the previous weeks that he had no idea about.

I'm also still holding out for a Donato final 2.

The way I see it, if you make it to F2, but the jury hates you and refuses to give you the big bucks, you must not have 'played the best game'.

Big Brother is a social game with two parts. You have to be slick enough to make it to F2 without getting kicked out, but you also have to sufficiently work the houseguests that are sent to the jury so that they are more willing to give you the money than they are willing to give it to the other guy.

A hamster may be a comp animal that no one is able to throw out of the house, but if they all hate him/her, that hamster probably didn't play the best game and doesn't necessarily 'deserve' to win.

Danielle, for some reason, chose to be bitchy to houseguests who were being voted out, wither while they were still in the house or in the 'good-bye' video. For some reason, she wasn't considering the fact that those people would choose who 'deserved' to win the big prize.

I'd normally agree with this. However while each of the jury members were actually in the house, they all hated Zach (Jen might be the exception here, but who knows with that one). Until he won a couple of competitions, nobody felt he was a threat nor did they think he had been playing the game, including people that were hanging in sequesterville.

Maybe they'll surprise me. Maybe Eric will talk them into rewarding gamesmanship (I think if it were a Dani/Zach final 2 and Eric's vote were his own, it would go to Dani because he didn't appreciate Zach's strategy). Maybe up is down and left is right.

Aww, Howie on the feeds. I miss Howie's entertainment value in the house. They should let him loose in the house to liven up the final 3 so it's not so frelling boring.

[tremolo]

That is really bizarre. The same very pro-Dick co-worker that I talked about in another thread, came in this morning and was ranting about how awful Dick and Dani were, too. And, she now wants Zach to win, as well.

There is one co-worker that I've always known is a BB fan and I have to be very careful not to spoil too much, which is so hard. Anyway, she can't stand the Ds and is pretty disgusted by CBS and the producers, as am I. I was talking to another co-worker of mine and I mentioned the show and how much I hate the potential final two and he says, "The Donatos" in one of the more contemptuous voices I've heard in my life. BB brings people together in their disgust for the players and the show. Kinda sweet.

The comp last night made me nervous. I thought they'd slip off their carrot and hurt themself or if they fell into the bar or something. I don't know why this one made me more anxious than others but it did. I guess I'm not usually so nervous that someone will slip and crack their head open or something. I know it's probably all padding and soft edges but I didn't like it.

[ff174]

From the recap thread.

Okay, DICK! is saying that he knows a lot about the jury, so he will be better with the questions than Zach. So, as mentioned in the earlier recaps, it seems that maybe the DR DID clue DICK! in on what the final competition would be about; questions about the jury members.

Do I have insider info. It's been the same every season with the final 3 hoh competitions. Holding keys, veto style comp (physical/mental game) and then questions with the jury. Every season. Dick watched the show.

ooops, me too. Must be that talk I had with Michael O, hehe. Dick and Dani have been talking about what usually happens all week. I am thinking if they had insider info, they would have known that there wouldn't be a car.

For me, there is just too many little hints that The Donatos have been assisted in their gameplay. They are well known, so I won't list them again. However, as far as the above incident, I point you to the following post, by FerfeLaBat, just before the second part of the HOH.

Here

[pvrunner]

From the recap thread.

Okay, DICK! is saying that he knows a lot about the jury, so he will be better with the questions than Zach. So, as mentioned in the earlier recaps, it seems that maybe the DR DID clue DICK! in on what the final competition would be about; questions about the jury members.

Do I have insider info. It's been the same every season with the final 3 hoh competitions. Holding keys, veto style comp (physical/mental game) and then questions with the jury. Every season. Dick watched the show.

ooops, me too. Must be that talk I had with Michael O, hehe. Dick and Dani have been talking about what usually happens all week. I am thinking if they had insider info, they would have known that there wouldn't be a car.

For me, there is just too many little hints that The Donatos have been assisted in their gameplay. They are well known, so I won't list them again. However, as far as the above incident, I point you to the following post, by FerfeLaBat, just before the second part of the HOH.

Here

They may have told him that in the DR. But that still doesn't mean it's insider info. Seriously, it's been the exact same sorts of competitions in every season at final 3. Dick knew that already. They'd been talking about it here and there all week. In fact, they explained this whole thing to Zach a week or so ago in a throwaway convo that I didn't see recapped.

[Shizzles]

I don't mean to throw the topic at all, but didn't anyone else notice how scripted the visit to the jury house was? There was NO way (in my mind) that, that was the original footage. If anyone has it tivo'd, take a look at Amber's reaction when Eric came marching through, unbelievable. Jen's looks from when she left the house to go to the jury house had changed a lot, in my opinion. Anyone else think that footage was taped way, way later than what they tried (half assed) to fool us with????

[Just Kimmie]

Now here's a point to ponder...

I'm surmising that since DICK!! won part 2 of the HOH comp, that Dick and Dani actually COMPETED, as opposed to one conceding to the other. Now, since we reasonably KNOW that Daniele would never, EVER concede a comp to her Dad, that DICK!! actually had to fight to win part 2, correct?

And, if THAT's true....could it be true that DICK!! actually wants to win the $500K himself, as opposed to letting Dani win it. Could it be that should DICK!! win part 3, that he takes ZACH to F2 over Daniele, figuring he can beat Z in F2 and also figuring he can't beat Dani in F2??

Now, that might be worth tuning in for...to see DICK!! win final HOH and boot his own daughter to the jury.

[cubkip]

Earlier in the week. Dani and Dick were discussing what usually happens for the last three hoh's. Dick has made mention many times that he knows the jury members more than Dani does. After all their talks, I think that his trust in this was amplified. I think he won on purpose because he thinks he has a better chance at beating Zach in round 3. He did talk about letting Dani win if there was a car involved though.

[RCToros]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in about the "race card" D-ick was trying to play against Zach.

As a woman of color, I think that most racial remarks are made out of ignorance. It's the weight behind the words that matters most to me. Living in a non-metropolitan part of the South, I witness a lot of that ignorance first hand. It doesn't bother me unless there is malicious intent behind it. What Zach said, to me, seems more slanted towards the trying-to-be-funny-like-Dick end of the inappropriate spectrum than a full on racist comment. For someone as socially awkward as Zach, he's taking cues from someone he perceived to be socially successful (keep in mind this is earlier in the season). As far as the hip-hop/Jam's music comment, I didn't hear that one first hand. But it could be said that Zach could just have easily said I don't like "Jess's music" if she was the on into hip hop.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that D-ick, being the one to constantly make race an issue, is truly the racist one. By trying to stir up hate connected to race, wouldn't that be the very definition of a racist?

*Ducks in anticipation of disagreement.*

[MrsYoungie]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in about the "race card" D-ick was trying to play against Zach.

As a woman of color, I think that most racial remarks are made out of ignorance. It's the weight behind the words that matters most to me. Living in a non-metropolitan part of the South, I witness a lot of that ignorance first hand. It doesn't bother me unless there is malicious intent behind it. What Zach said, to me, seems more slanted towards the trying-to-be-funny-like-Dick end of the inappropriate spectrum than a full on racist comment. For someone as socially awkward as Zach, he's taking cues from someone he perceived to be socially successful (keep in mind this is earlier in the season). As far as the hip-hop/Jam's music comment, I didn't hear that one first hand. But it could be said that Zach could just have easily said I don't like "Jess's music" if she was the on into hip hop.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that D-ick, being the one to constantly make race an issue, is truly the racist one. By trying to stir up hate connected to race, wouldn't that be the very definition of a racist?

*Ducks in anticipation of disagreement.*

Thank you for that. Being white these days often means never knowing what is safe to say. I used to live in a very metropolitan area where I worked with people of every race and background. I now live in a small suburban town and have never heard people say such racist things in my life. They think it's normal apparently. I have given up correcting people. Anyway - in the great scheme of things, I feel that if the worst racist remark a person has ever made is the phrase "very white of you" then they are NOT racist. It's just a phrase. I have heard it used - but usually in a sort of ironic way.
Dick is an asshole. His whole bashing of people involves grabbing one tiny element of truth and building it into a huge lie. Isn't that what they say the devil does? Not that I think Dick is the devil. I still just think he's a self-centred asshole.

[mewmom30]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in about the "race card" D-ick was trying to play against Zach.

As a woman of color, I think that most racial remarks are made out of ignorance. It's the weight behind the words that matters most to me. Living in a non-metropolitan part of the South, I witness a lot of that ignorance first hand. It doesn't bother me unless there is malicious intent behind it. What Zach said, to me, seems more slanted towards the trying-to-be-funny-like-Dick end of the inappropriate spectrum than a full on racist comment. For someone as socially awkward as Zach, he's taking cues from someone he perceived to be socially successful (keep in mind this is earlier in the season). As far as the hip-hop/Jam's music comment, I didn't hear that one first hand. But it could be said that Zach could just have easily said I don't like "Jess's music" if she was the on into hip hop.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that D-ick, being the one to constantly make race an issue, is truly the racist one. By trying to stir up hate connected to race, wouldn't that be the very definition of a racist?

*Ducks in anticipation of disagreement.*

Thank you for that. Being white these days often means never knowing what is safe to say. I used to live in a very metropolitan area where I worked with people of every race and background. I now live in a small suburban town and have never heard people say such racist things in my life. They think it's normal apparently. I have given up correcting people. Anyway - in the great scheme of things, I feel that if the worst racist remark a person has ever made is the phrase "very white of you" then they are NOT racist. It's just a phrase. I have heard it used - but usually in a sort of ironic way.
Dick is an asshole. His whole bashing of people involves grabbing one tiny element of truth and building it into a huge lie. Isn't that what they say the devil does? Not that I think Dick is the devil. I still just think he's a self-centred asshole.

It continuously amazes me some of the things that come out of that man's mouth..... In my own experience, I just cannot imagine..... Born in Chicago, I lived in the L.A. area for 22 years (by way of Miami) and the one thing that struck me as the most positive about L.A./Santa Monica was the non-racist attitude of everyone that I came into contact with ~ My son was only 4 years old when I moved there and it was so positive - all cultures living together in harmony. Don't know where Dick was born/raised but his attitudes are far beyond anything I have experienced..... I feel sorry for both Ds if they think their behaviour is anywhere near normal....