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Tsylyst

General House Analysis and Discussion VII

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I brought this over from the General House Analysis thread, because I discuss Dick's behavior more than anything, and I wanted to make sure it goes in the right thread. Hope that's ok.

 

 

I don't think I want Zach to win, I thought I might but I really don't like someone who hasn't been playing much to win. And I don't love the Ds, far from it, but they have been playing to win from the start, I have to give a lot to their heart being in it. I guess it was like Ivette getting to the end, I couldn't belive she got there after doing nothing to be there, and I couldn't believe that Janie slipped and fell off!!! But then next to Maggie I wanted Ivette to suddenly get a brain cell and play to win, even if it was just at the very end...so I thought I would feel the same way about Zach, but I don't, and I don't know why. I want Dick to win and I can't give any other reason than that he played to win.

 

 

See< I don't get that at all. I often hear the phrase, "it's just a game" and "his game play" or "my game play" (depending on who's talking) ... and not just in reference to this season/show.

 

But as far as Dick is concerned, I don't think it's "just game play." I think he's a major a-hole, narcissistic, violent and possibly unbalanced psycho. Only my opinioin, of course. So with that viewpoint, his behavior is just him being him. And to reward that? Not good, IMO. DaniSpawn is a little Dickette in Training, taking pleasure in other people's suffering at the hands of her father (Exhibit A: her scary skeletal bitchface grin) .... so by default, I feel I have to root for Zach Rabbit. Maybe he didn't put himself out there compeltely, or try to win comps at first, but that was strategic – unlike Dick & Dani's behavior, which was just personality and not strategy, in my opinion. And yes, the whole, "I Survived You" (thank you Clay Aiken I love you) theme for Zach, able to sneer in the face of his abusers .... good for him!

 

moved from the Dick thread, because you're talking about more than just Dick here. ~tooletta

Edited by tooletta

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Shannon   

I warming to Zach, slowly, I am keeping an open mind, but I'm not quite there yet.

 

The Jury house if full of people with a chip on their shoulder because most of them didn't play at all, bugs me, they get to vote and they are mostly going to vote based on who rubbed their boring selves the right way. PPFFTTTT! Other than Eric, who's in the Jury House who even knows what playing BB is about?

 

I brought this over from the General House Analysis thread, because I discuss Dick's behavior more than anything, and I wanted to make sure it goes in the right thread. Hope that's ok.

 

 

I don't think I want Zach to win, I thought I might but I really don't like someone who hasn't been playing much to win. And I don't love the Ds, far from it, but they have been playing to win from the start, I have to give a lot to their heart being in it. I guess it was like Ivette getting to the end, I couldn't belive she got there after doing nothing to be there, and I couldn't believe that Janie slipped and fell off!!! But then next to Maggie I wanted Ivette to suddenly get a brain cell and play to win, even if it was just at the very end...so I thought I would feel the same way about Zach, but I don't, and I don't know why. I want Dick to win and I can't give any other reason than that he played to win.

 

 

See< I don't get that at all. I often hear the phrase, "it's just a game" and "his game play" or "my game play" (depending on who's talking) ... and not just in reference to this season/show.

 

But as far as Dick is concerned, I don't think it's "just game play." I think he's a major a-hole, narcissistic, violent and possibly unbalanced psycho. Only my opinioin, of course. So with that viewpoint, his behavior is just him being him. And to reward that? Not good, IMO. DaniSpawn is a little Dickette in Training, taking pleasure in other people's suffering at the hands of her father (Exhibit A: her scary skeletal bitchface grin) .... so by default, I feel I have to root for Zach Rabbit. Maybe he didn't put himself out there compeltely, or try to win comps at first, but that was strategic – unlike Dick & Dani's behavior, which was just personality and not strategy, in my opinion. And yes, the whole, "I Survived You" (thank you Clay Aiken I love you) theme for Zach, able to sneer in the face of his abusers .... good for him!

 

Ah see, I can't pick by default, they have to have game play, I watch for the game not to bond with the hammies or like them as people over another. The closest I've ever come to that is with Janie and damn if she doesn't just light up a room for me, but she played hard too, had she just been a pretty smile I wouldn't have thought she should have won. I am not dismissing Zach winning for good game play, but I am holding out to see how well he keeps playing. That last HOH comp showed him in a pretty good light. I may not want to be within a 100 feet of a Danoto in real life, but as for playing to win, I have to give them a thumbs up. I don't see the game as who would I want to be around, I see it as who is good enough to shove their way to the end.

 

moved from Dick thread and merged with previous post ~tooletta

 

thank you tooletta

Edited by Shannon

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Sarafu   

I'm also going to disagree with the idea that Zach hasn't played the game. I don't think he's been aggressive and I don't know that I agree with his gameplay (for one thing, he whines that no one talked to him for 40 days, but I don't think he made much of an effort until Jameka to get to know anyone in the house which is why his social game is somewhat lacking - he spent a lot of time lecturing). I also wish that he had had the guts to use the veto at F5 and get Dani out, trusting Eric or not trusting Eric - at least he knew Eric wasn't winning comps. But he's playing the game now when it matters most. If he wins this final HOH, he'll have won 3 of the last 4 HOHs and kept himself in the game by virtue of winning comps, the same way Daniele has kept herself in this game.

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I actually think that Zach did play the game.. even if his gameplay was to try to lay low for a while. IIRC, alot of the LNC thought that Zach was throwing comps for a while early in the game.

 

My problem with Dick's "gameplay" is the same as watching_waiting's. I don't think it's strictly gameplay. They had that one episode with people who know Dick that all admitted, that it is how he really is.

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If I may?

 

The concept of "Damage Over Time" comes into play with Zach's apparent strategy. In World of Warcraft there are characters (The Donatos) that act as Tanks and they are built to take DOTs. But other characters (just as valuable and also in the battle) play a different role and fight in a different way. In fact, a full frontal will make you a much bigger target. The goal is not to die for your game, but to make the other guy die for HIS game.

 

The camera hasn't spent a lot of time getting to know Zach so I can't say he has or hasn't been playing full out because he hasn't revealed his thoughts much until these last few weeks. Now that he's talking to the camera? Oh he's playing, believe me. Creeps me out sometimes.

 

The D's have dominated old style, but Zach (and I can't say this for sure because he is the invisible man) seems to have been playing like a man used to an online team effort.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - The D's played HARD, hammering away at opponents. It looks like Zach played SMART - graphing players assets and liabilities week by week and aligning himself with the high value players.

Edited by FerfeLaBat

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sbell111   

FerfeLaBat makes a great point. It's one that I've been kind of mulling over for the last little while.

 

One one hand, you have a team of two people who win a bunch of comps. It seems like they always either control HoH, PoV, or are in a strong alliance with whoever is 'in control'.

 

On the other hand, you have a person that plays the bulk of the game without winning any comps and without being in any really strong alliances.

 

Even though the first pair are busting out and winning a bunch of comps, I would argue that the second one has to work harder to stay in the game simply because he/she doesn't have the protection that the first one has.

 

For the game to work, you really need both kinds of player. The in-your-face gamers attract more heat, but the other players have to work to try to keep a target off their back (or try to make other people's target larger and brighter).

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gunshyne   

The difference between the Donatos and Zack to me is the Donatos have had a plan along. I know some disagree that Dicks strategy is his aggression, please I am not arguing that. That has been what he has said and what he has stuck to all along.(whether that is the reason or not who knows). Dani has been strong in comps & good at letting daddy take all the heat. She has also been consistent.

 

I have liked Zack since early on, even when it wasn't but a few people on that train. I still say he "Zacked" his way up to the F4. He had no clue what he was doing and made no sense at all when he used to try and talk strategy with people,bless his little bunny heart. I think back to some of his theories and they were so bizarre. He has totally stepped it up when it counted. So in my opinion he deserves to win just as much as Dick or Dani.

 

I will be happy with whoever wins out of the three. All will get some money no matter what at this point. I think Spawn will slide daddy some dough if she makes F2 and he doesn't.

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I look at it like this - would either one of the Donatos have made it this far if they had been the only Donato in the house?

 

Zach is having to essentially take them both on at the same time. If he wins HOH, he deserves it all.

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Woozee   
If I may?

 

The concept of "Damage Over Time" comes into play with Zach's apparent strategy. In World of Warcraft there are characters (The Donatos) that act as Tanks and they are built to take DOTs. But other characters (just as valuable and also in the battle) play a different role and fight in a different way. In fact, a full frontal will make you a much bigger target. The goal is not to die for your game, but to make the other guy die for HIS game.

 

The camera hasn't spent a lot of time getting to know Zach so I can't say he has or hasn't been playing full out because he hasn't revealed his thoughts much until these last few weeks. Now that he's talking to the camera? Oh he's playing, believe me. Creeps me out sometimes.

 

The D's have dominated old style, but Zach (and I can't say this for sure because he is the invisible man) seems to have been playing like a man used to an online team effort.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - The D's played HARD, hammering away at opponents. It looks like Zach played SMART - graphing players assets and liabilities week by week and aligning himself with the high value players.

 

His strategy, grounded in playing possum, is often used in long distance running. Stay with the leader, conserve your energy for the last leg and go all out. The trick is to have enough at the end to go all out. Sticking close to Dani was the best thing he could have done, especially after Jessica let Eric play for her all that time. One of the biggest challenges I see all players facing in this game is their own issues. Zach's social issues might have done him in had someone like Dick not been in the house.

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gforce   

I think we've seen time and again in this show and in Survivor, that lying low is not only a valid strategy, but a desirable one. I think you really only have two options if you want to win - either lie low and "float", or be a competition superman (or woman). It's MUCH harder to carry the second one off, because it's physically much more difficult and because it makes you much more of a target. Consider how many of the winners of these type of shows have been the fly under the radar types.

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That's very true, gforce. 'Floater' is not a dirty word in my book. And if you're a Zach, without a strong support system in the house (or the skills to develop one), it's really the most logical way to go. I don't think Zach is just there by dumb luck or by the grace of the Donatos. He floated and he did it well.

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RCToros   

I agree with Gforce that floating is indeed a valid strategy, especially in a social game. Someone in some post somewhere (sorry to the originator, too lazy to go find it), said that "floating" became a dirty word in season 6, and I think they're right. If you're in too strong of an alliance, you're a target. I'm not saying Zach completely strategized his way to this position, a lot of it has to do with dumb luck, but I don't think he just stumbled his way into F3 either.

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pvrunner   
I look at it like this - would either one of the Donatos have made it this far if they had been the only Donato in the house?

 

Zach is having to essentially take them both on at the same time. If he wins HOH, he deserves it all.

It's impossible to say for sure if they'd have made it this far without each other in the house. They both would have played differently with different circumstances. This is the hand they were dealt.

 

I still believe Dani played the best game. I still believe she should win. I also believe that the jury is full of bitterness that would reward Zach for his bumbling along not knowing what was going on until week 9 or 10, when Dani and Dick told him what had happened the previous weeks that he had no idea about.

 

I'm also still holding out for a Donato final 2.

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I've always thought that under-the-radar players are playing the game smarter. This strategy tends to put you in the position of having odds of not being nominated at least modestly favorable to you in any given HOH/veto. While you'll never be totally safe, you're also not wholly at risk either (like Jase was during the infamous six-finger plan). Since the game is all about numbers, having the numbers on your side most of the time is a huge edge.

 

I've never seen the payoff of being a balls-out player as sufficient to compensate for the risk involved (except in the final few competitions). Trying to dominate ends up putting you on the bad side of the numbers more often than not, and you can't play that gamble that many times and expect to keep winning. Dick and Daniele only managed to pull this off because they successfully talked Eric and Jessica into an F4 deal - without that, there's no way they would have survived the crucial F8 to F5 period where many high-flying players go down. The influence of AP over Eric and Eric's subsequent influence over Jessica was a confluence of circumstances that had the highly unusual result of players acting against their own interest. If I were playing this game, I wouldn't want my strategy to depend on other people making dumb choices. It worked for the Donatos, but it was definitely a one-off.

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