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Mekias   

Neither Jordan nor Rachel deserve to win because both would have been gone if Grodner hadn't stepped in to save them. One would have gone this week and the other would be left with no allies and likely gone next week.

 

Jordan is a sweet, guileless girl who I'd love to have as a friend in real life but that doesn't mean she deserves to win this game.

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Shannon   

I don't think Jordan's reaction showed much kindness from her heart, you give without expectations or you don't. Plus look at Jordan's reaction, she was fixated on people thinking she was stupid, people all knowing that Shelly was lying (in a liars game no less, just as J&J were both doing to others) but Jordan was too dumb to see it. All Jordan, all the time, sometimes Jordan, it's not about you, and it's not about your intelligence, but Jordan is a bit obsessed about herself. Not in the vain way so many are, but still quite self-adsorbed. Then her next reaction was pure D hate anger and being pissed that she gave a mother a phone call to talk to a young child that must miss her mother like crazy. Why would anyone be pissed about Shelly's child getting to talk to her mother? That's not understandable to me, not even in the heat of sailor-cussing mad-as-hell Jordan at that moment. But I'm not Jordan, true, and I wouldn't have held something like that against someone who bested my boyfriend in a game, a game for pete sakes. I'm not buying the super sweet, sugar wouldn't melt in her mouth story anymore, I've seen Jordan when mad, she's no different than the rest of the hammies and she can mean girl right along with the rest of them. I don't have to get hit with a brick twice to see someone as they are, she's just as human as everyone else. Really, it's time to cut Jordan some slack and stop making her out to be special, let her be like everyone else, flaws and all. This halo version of Jordan is tiresome.

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The main problem I have with your line of reasoning, Mekias, is that production screws around with all aspects of the game from the very beginning. There is no way to quantify it or to demonstrate whether production interference occurs more now than in earlier versions of BB but I don't think any honest observer of BB Live Feeds over the last several years can deny everything from types of HOH competitions, POV competitions, etc. all the way to DR sessions and twists aren't attempts by TPTB to influence the "competition" in the pursuit of game situations they believe will create the best television. This latest twist is so obviously ridiculous that I'm surprised more fans haven't complained but then I think to myself that this just illustrates how TPTB have calculated correctly that TV viewers and the casual fans are more interested in watching their favorite personalities or prolonged conflicts between heroes and villains than the actual integrity of the "competition". Still, is this twist truly anymore ridiculous than DR sessions in which players are guided toward certain actions or are giving suggestions how to influence other players to change votes, switch allegiances, etc.? Did Dick deserve to win Season 8 when he was only saved by an America's Player who was compelled to vote against his very own game interests? Did Jeff do anything inside the game to deserve or win the Coup d'Etat power? Dan winning some flukey power that allowed him to talk to a juror and win over a jury vote? I think it's just time for us to accept that BB isn't really an honest competition so much as it's a reality show aimed at showing personality conflict and interpersonal drama which happens to crowns a "winner" at the end.

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Mekias   

DR talks only get the person to think of their other options. The DR can't make someone do something they don't want to do. This "twist" was far more ridiculous because it was so blatant. Even the Coup D'Jeff couldn't have saved both Jordan and Rachel.

 

Let’s looks at the laundry list of offenses:

 

1) Offering an HoH a clear money prize as well as enticing their curiosity and relieving their boredom with Pandora’s Box makes it almost a guarantee that it’ll be opened. No one has ever refused to open Pandora’s Box and, of course, giving Porsche more screen time is an obvious motivation for her. Add to that the fact that no opener of the Pandora's Box has ever had their game ruined by it. The only other game-changing PB was when Matt got the DPoV when he opened it.

 

2) Allowing Rachel & Jordan to choose their duo partner made it so that they could both be saved. They could have allowed Porsche to choose (although she may have chosen the same). It could have been random partners. But that wouldn’t have suited production’s purposes, would it?

 

3) With only 2 duos to choose from, Porsche had no real choice in who to nominate. Putting up Shelly and Adam wouldn't have done her much good since she was in a tentative alliance with them.

 

4) The veto is useless as a power to anyone but Rachel and Jordan. Shelly or Adam couldn’t have used it because then they would have been on the block. But if Rachel or Jordan won the veto, it’s just like the final 4 veto, they suddenly get TOTAL power over the house.

 

5) The veto competition just happened to be Rachel’s best competition (endurance). There has NEVER been an endurance comp for veto. Rachel has never lost an endurance comp. None of the newbies are particularly physically fit. Porsche might have had a slim chance but she wasn’t fighting for her life either.

 

6) Porsche now has NO choice about who to put up in Rachel & Jordan’s place. So, hmm, the HoH had absolutely no power this week. How convenient.

 

7) Rachel & Jordan have the votes to do whatever they want. They have all the power in the house now. Shelly went from being almost 100% safe to being out the door because of this.

 

8) Porsche can’t compete in the next HoH and only has Kalia as a slim hope to stay safe. Those two are practically done for. Even in the final 4 HoH, the winner lacks power but is safe and gets to play in the next HoH. Porsche doesn't even get that.

 

Production certainly messes with this show every season but they're usually more subtle about it. This was just a flagrant abuse of the game. They're practically throwing it in our faces that they can do whatever they want. It feels like the hamsters are powerless.

 

Edited to Add: Sorry about the rant. When I perceive something in a game or competition as unfair, I get angry. I actually like Jordan a lot and find Rachel entertaining (when she's not with Brendon). I admit that I mostly want them both to lose to stick it to Grodner. Kinda sad since I know that Grodner could care less who wins. She only wants it to be entertaining.

Edited by Mekias

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maryhse   

See...I don't think of Big Brother as a game show....not even a competition really unless you get down to what you are really competing against which is the one imposing the rules they see fit to throw your way. To me the title of the show says it all "Big Brother"...it's about a force (i.e. production) exerting it's influence on these people that they are watching 24/7 to see how they react, regroup, rethink, replan, when an obstacle is thrown in their way. They are isolated, without any outside influences from the "real" world to the point all they see, think, feel and hear is what they are experiencing inside the house. It's all about production seeing how they react to the paranoia, the tension, the lack of food for Have Nots, the switching back and forth of the alliances based on sometimes nothing more than a seed planted in the DR. If this was truly a game show or competition, then yes, play fair and square, don't have Have Nots (which is another way production manipulates the show) don't lock them away, don't follow them 24/7, don't let other HGs hide stuff, lie, cheat or backsstab...it's not a game show, it's a TV show about watching the manipulation of an isolated group of people to see what it takes to get them into doing the total opposite of what they would do in the "outside" world.

 

If I want to watch a game show I'll watch Jeopardy, if I want to watch a competition I'll watch an athletic event. BB is far and away from either of those two things and I LOVE it! I think anyone who gets to the end any way they can deserves to win. PERIOD. Whether it's by lying, cheating, backstabbing, manipulation, being sweet and nice or "floating". They deserve to be there, because the others...well, they aren 't.

 

With that said...I am liking the Jordan and Rachel pairing...I love hating on K and P...I love watching Shelly regroup and rethink and remanipulate...and I love Jeff...warts and all. I had high hopes for Dani, but she screwed herself too early.

 

I'm a newbie so sorry to all you vets here who are WAY better than me at this!

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That's a fantastic post Mary. I think sometimes we get invested in the houseguests at a personal level, especially the Vets since we have known them for so much longer. I will say this though, the only changes or manipulations made seem to help who ever will get the best ratings.

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blb1215   

I totally agree. This is in no way designed to be a fair game or a competition. Reality shows like Big Brother or Survivor by design are unfair. Just the fact the winner is chosen by the people that you lie, cheat, back stab, or otherwise vote out makes it difficult to win. Anyone who can make to the end by whatever means and does the least amount of damage to the jury members can win. It is also unfair in that by the very nature of the game you form alliances and it will only be natural for whom ever is at the end the person with the most of their alliance in the jury will win. It does not usually matter how well you played the game.

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Mekias   

Good post, Mary.

 

There is a point though where getting to the final 2 isn't an accomplishment or worthy of note. What if they rigged it so that Rachel and Jordan were heavily favored to make it to final 2? They would no longer be getting there based on their own gameplay or achievements. They're getting there because production wanted it.

 

Why even play the game when the result is preordained?

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Mary I totally agree with your post as a whole, but I also give credit to the above posts of others, regarding the influences of production when it's based on ratings.

 

Fortunately, here at Hamstertime, we don't value the newbies "less" than the veterans! All around an awesome post Mary!

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sim37   

Without production's influence, the Big Brother game is fair. There will always be a certain factor of luck involved (as in life) but for the most part, if you are a good enough player, you can account for all the factors involved and make it far. You already know before you enter the house that the winner will be chosen by 7 evictees. It's part of the social game to bring someone more hated with you to the Final 2 but also to persuade the jury members that you have enough blood on your hands to deserve a win but also that you don't have too much dirty blood or you'll end up being resented. It's a delicate balance and the best players know how to handle it. But most importantly, you know all of this beforehand and it applies to all players equally.

 

Now realistically, production is commonly involved but moreso as little whispers and nudges here and there. When production got as involved as they have this week, they basically sent an invisible hand down into the game interrupting what was going to happen. And by doing this, they have sent out a stark message: "This is a show first and a competition second." Unfortunately, there are viewers like me that don't watch the show for the drama or the humor segments. I watch the show for the gameplay, first and foremost. And when the game is so obviously tampered with, it loses the trust of some of its viewers. I like Jordan but if she's going to win, I want it to be because she deserves it and not because America thinks she's nice to look at.

 

I'm going to finish this season because I'm already invested but if Grodner so obviously flaunts that she doesn't care if the winner is not who plays the hardest, CBS might have at least one less viewer next summer.

 

If this was truly a game show or competition, then yes, play fair and square, don't have Have Nots (which is another way production manipulates the show) don't lock them away, don't follow them 24/7, don't let other HGs hide stuff, lie, cheat or backsstab.

I agree with most of your post but I have to disagree with this part. Have Nots are perfectly fair because everyone has a chance to win or lose that competition. It's a legitimate punishment for the losers and their fate is in their own hands here.

Regarding the other stuff (the backstabbing and whatnot), just because it doesn't fit into a "stereotypical" gameshow like Jeopardy doesn't mean it makes Big Brother less of a competition, at least to me. It's a game of navigating relationships instead of knowing trivia. It's a unique competition but it's still a competition to me.

Edited by sim37

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sim37   

True. That was only one week though and production didn't decide - a winner of a competition did. But anyway, I'm saying that all the rest of the time, the Have Not concept is fair.

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CycleRob   

I think I agree with Sim37 and Mekias on this one. While I enjoy the personality conflicts and the humor of the show, the appeal of BB for me has been the competition and the game play as people feint and maneuver to try and get to the end. I'm under no illusions that BB has manipulated some things in the past to try and get the show to go in a particular direction. I think what bothers me about this week's Pandora's Box "twist" is that it comes so late in the season and was so clearly designed to benefit Jordan and Rachel. Matt's Diamond Power of Veto, for example, didn't bother me that much because 1) it came earlier in the season, when FUG usually does her "twist" and 2) the "twist" didn't seem designed to benefit Matt in particular. He was just the one who happened to win it.

 

Does anyone know why I keep putting "twist" in quotation marks?

 

As all of life can be compared to The Wizard of Oz, I think this week's "twist" was the moment when Toto pulled away the curtain and I got such a clear glimpse of FUG behind the curtain pulling the strings (for me more blatantly than anything in any previous season, including production forcing Eric to save Dick in Season 8) that some of the fun has gone out of the show for me. I can't even articulate exactly why it feels different, it just does. I was aware of the manipulation before, but this week (for me) it seemed to go so far and become so blatant that it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I can't help it. *shrugs*

 

At the risk of sounding like a Cycle Downer, I'm kind of at a crossroads with BB this season. This might be the Fonz Jumping Over the Shark moment for me. I either have to, as Zgeist notes, get on board with watching it solely as an entertainment show and not think about it at all as a reality competition series...or I'm going to slowly retreat away from the show altogether...retreat...retreat...

Edited by CycleRob

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gforce   

Please remember folks that this is the Jordan thread. General discussion needs to go in the House Analysis thread.

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